The Political thread ... rant away.

Wrong! First generation Su-25 (which is almost phased out everywhere, mainly due to unpressurized cabin which indeed limits its service ceiling)
There's a range between service ceiling (max possible altitude for a normal prolonged flight without any risks for a pilot or aircraft, like engine stall etc.) and absolute ceiling aka coffin corner which is the highest altitude at which an aircraft can sustain level flight, which means the altitude at which the thrust of the engines at full power is equal to the total drag at minimum drag speed, you just can't cross it without aircraft modification. Second is about 1.5-2 times higher than the first.

And it means that original first generation Su-25 can easily reach 9000m with at least two missiles if pilot is provided with a pressure suit) but Ukrainian Army had at least one two-seater Su-25 UBM(1) and M1 there, both pressurized and have service ceiling of 10000m, can reach 12000m loaded easily.

I can even provide official ukrainian site, if you want : http://uos.ua/produktsiya/aviakosmicheskaya-tehnika/84-cy-25. And what we see here - Service ceiling is 7000-10000m.

Also service ceiling isn't a constant, it's a variable, it depends on lot of factors, such as weather conditions, load, fuel amount etc.
With just two AAMs it can reach about 80% of a "coffin corner"

And here is your first gen 25 at 8700m : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GY_2NoHdNso&t=5m33s

Also 5000m altitude is the limit for ground attack operations with a standard air-to-surface armament.

Ten thousand lemmings can't be wrong? UK, US and Canada are close allies and Australia too. Also, what Malaysia is doing here? They only want a thorough investigation. Also.... just show me australian surveillance satellite over Ukraine, ok?
Accusations, accusations, threats but not a single credible proof.
We all remember Iraq. Where is Saddam's WMD? Difference is that you can't invade a country with nuclear weapons. Even DPRK with their very limited means to deliver their 2-10 nukes.

And there's a reason for economical sanctions against russian defence industry, one of the many of course, but it's the main one - rivalry in weapons export.

All? What weed do you smoke? I want to try, seriously, must be a really strong stuff. Go buy a globe - world isn't limited to US and their first 10 allies. And you know, many US companies are more than unhappy with all this political bullshit, they have profitable business in Russia.

Only BRICS countries represent 3/4 of world's population. Also many (not all) EU countries gave in on sanctions after very heavy pressure from US. Because most EU countries except for some politicians controlled by US (dat spy scandal in Germany heh.) don't want to start a trade war with Russia which will hurt their economy as well, not to mention a real war as many people still remember last big war in Europe which left most of it in ruins.

No,but also not a full video and there's still THAT billboard i was talking about.

Also by proof i meant well, proof... Like satellite and radar data and something more reliable than random facebook/twitter stuff, unsubstantiated speculations and total bullshit like badly edited SBU fake videos.

 

US satellites have proof that Boeing was shot down by ukrainians^_^
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/07/20/what-did-us-spy-satellites-see-in-ukraine/

 

fuck that!
try CONTRA!
i remember MORE than just LIES of WMD's that never existed (tony blair, you'll get your 'dues'you made the mistake of screwing with the poor, now it's just a matter of time before they get something dear to you and CRUSH IT!) and i'm still pissed THATCHER sold iraq parts for a super-gun and had the nerve to accuse them of shit the UK and US gvt's was supplying...old news, but findable/PROVABLE, another subject entirely.
...
yep, this isn't about the subject but what i already stated earlier here, i don't believe a single WORD any of the g8 (or western) gvt's say, there's ZERO proofs.
but you know what gets a country enslaved/NUKED?
the offending nation (or power) who's caught with pants around ankles REFUSING to admit wrongs committed/put right their mistakes. (not sure where it comes from but: death before dishonour, i'd sooner render the earth uninhabitable than ever admit i was wrong)
getting the enemy to apologise for a willful mistake is just as dangerous at cause of war as any pretext you care to imagine.
....
not siding with anybody on this, but Flash yet again hit the nail on the head. (and my opinion: UK, USA and AUS shouldn't be sticking their beaks where they don't belong...and AUS is the testing ground for the 'NWO' agenda 21...she'll be right mate! UK isn't far behind. off-subject)
[edit]
typo.

 

I knew a reporter from Lybia who had some interesting stories about tony Blair's visits and dealing with Gaddafi....let just say he got plenty of back handlers and companies lined up for him to "obtain" when he was no longer prime minister.....in his words you would be shocked how much stuff happened and so blatantly yet western news never even took a sniff

politics is just a charade no power even lands in the politicians hands....only back handers to get them to stfu and bend over for the real power houses

on a side note....oh how strange that news site is down now

 

^^ sort of confirmed.
i suspect the site is bombarded with a ddos and pipe blocker of some description?
usually, a return is instant, but it hangs my side with error 404/bad gateway. not a sign a site is gone (offed for good) but for intents and purposes, not accessible...for now at least.
yeah, i can only guess how many was killed for wanting to speak out about blairs shitty underhandedness, FEW vs the ones who took the ca$h and kept gobs shut.
i wouldn't be shocked personally, just disappointed, to the core, as usual. (detroit rock city had the right idea, wanna be in 'civil disobedience' 'aka: TERRORIST of the present day? hijack a radio station, something with it's own mast, power generator, transmitters and studio equipment...and use it to broadcast GOOD STUFF ONLY. like 'somebody did summat cool for community' or 'a life was saved at the disregard for own safety' or maybe 'a cat was rescued, stuck up a tree'..just good news. then again, nobody cares for good, just carnage, selfishness, misery and their own vanity..SAD!)
[edit]
typo.

 

Yeah I know it will just be a ddos or something, but it's a nice way to prevent news being spread....even if its linked all over the internet if the site is ddos'd nobody can see it until the majority of people forget to even go look if they're where interested

 

Some more analysis:
http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.ru/2014/07/the-russian-military-finally-speaks.html
Yep, page is barely available. But i've downloaded it.




Full page (with commentaries):
http://rghost.ru/57037287
UPD:
Some addition to this article. About bottles - if it was really bottles and soldiers were drunk, it was probably ukrainian army. Americans didn't know one fact about militia. Their leader, Igor Girkin a.k.a. Igor Strelkov, said when this rebellion started - anyone of militia spotted drunk will be disarmed, demoted and sent to digging trenches. About looters, superg mention above - this idiot didn't know anything, but told so much... Girkin issued an order - if any looters (especially from militia) will be captured and fact of looting will be confirmed, these looters will be executed. And there was an accident, when some bastards, who joined militia for profit, looted ukrainian shop. Some civiliand pointed at them, fact of looting was confirmed (they have a lot of supplies and items from this market), guys were executed and items were returned to looted market. It's a war time and prestige of militia is at stake.

 

Well if you look at most of current world "leaders" and politicians - they look like a bunch of people you can't trust to run a poultry farm, and they "ran/run" global superpowers or at least powerful regional states. Gorbatchov, Yeltsin, Mr. Ronald "SDI" RayGun, Clinton, Bush Jr (who was the walking meme generator, much like Jen Psaki is now), Blair, Obama? Of course they are nothing but puppets.

Elections happen, banksters replace the puppet, lather, rinse, repeat. And we have an endless supply of shampoo here. For centuries money was an equivalent for something valuable, now that dollar mafia can just print as many as they want. Also IMF is always here to help, after some "unexpected" economical troubles, for a price of course.

 

Fuck yeah! Finally western peoples started to understand who is real criminal in Ukraine-Russia incident:
http://www.interpol.int/notice/search/wanted/2014-16549

 

Bad... Real bad!
Ukrainian fascicts alreasy prepared to make another act of terrorism on Ukraine itself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_eDgYDn49s
closed captions in English - turn them on in right-bottom corner of the video.
So in a matter of days a lot of ukrainian civilians have a great chance to die by will of Kiev's junta.

 

Even malaysian journalists started to think that MH17 was shot down by americans, but not by Russia or Donbass militia ^_^
http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/269754

 

Brave ukrainian army shelled Gorlovka. Some killed, heavily armed terrorists (as ukraininans claimed)...

And those bastards ever dare to say - "we do not firing on civilians". superg is just one of them. Beware of non-russian ukrainians (yep, there's two type of ukrainians - western ukrainians, (those, who through all they're short history were slaves to Poland and Austria) and eastern ukrainians, who, in reality, just russians, who just came to Ukraine long time ago and living there). This little advice can save your life or life of your kids.
Meanwhile ukrainian army also shelled terrytory nearby crashsite of MH17^_^ Not Russia, not Donbass militia, but ukrainian army.
One more thing - some highrank officers from Ukraine army spoiled (unofficially) that there is high 'possibility' that MH17 were shot down by ukrainian army. As they said - it were just mistake at military exercises. Just like in 2001.

EDITED: Pictured removed.

There's no point for embedding that picture.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9-8KvtfjZA
Bingo!

 

OSCE expert find out holes on MH17 fuselage made by high caliber machinegun

Was it russian "Buk"? No, it wasn't. But it was probably an ukrainian jetfighter, just as russian Department of Defence said earlier...
So, who is a bad guy now?

 

Man we almost need a propaganda thread. (I suppose this is the propaganda thread)

 

Nah. This thread is what it is - a political rant thread. Mostly.

Well, i doubt that it was US-planned false flag operation. For two reasons - first, it's just too close to russian borders so satellites and radars see the territory as clearly as you see the dinner table, and anyone with airband receiver can record the radio chatter. Second, there was a chance that militia will bring flight recorders to Russia and Russia then invites malaysians and others to decode it. Same with random eyewitnesses, especially guys with cameras. Not to mention that with current state of ukrainian special services and army you'll never know who will sell you
Waaay too risky.

Second - all that incredibly lame facebook/twitter/youtube "proof" talk vs real deal from russian Ministry of Defence. In case of a real false flag operation, more realistic fake would be made BEFORE the event. Which means only one thing - US used yet another ukrainian army fuckup (80% chance) or ukrainian lame attempt at false flag operation (20% chance) to push EU towards sanctions, that's all.
For fuckups, well they have quite an history with those.

 

US analysts conclude MH17 downed by aircraft

 

Not to be a dick but you're sure those gory pictures are appropriated to show in-line with the posts? I'd only post an url with a not work safe warning.