Virginia Tech shooting - at least 32 dead

Im very sorry to hear that,I hope no one close to you got hurt.I wish for the best and for everyone else affected by it.

 

I don't want to take this off topic, nor do I wish to wander off what is a very emotional and distrubing thread (I really hope that anyone at the Uni involved is ok), but the issue isn't that people play violent console games, the problem in my opinion is that 200million guns exist in the United States (potentially a great deal more) and 30,000 people are killed in 11,000 gun related incidents per annum (and rising). You only need a small number of those gun owners to be having a bad day for them to share that shit with anyone they have a grudge with such as former employers, an ex partner, a competing drug pusher... you name it. None of that personal stuff is influenced by gaming.

More people are being killed in the United Kingdom than ever before in gun related incidents, due NOT to lax laws (they are some of the tightest in Europe), but mainly because a gun culture is being spread through gangs & drug pushers.

Back to the topic in hand. I am perplexed by the news that the campus security & Police assumed the first shooting incident was a domestic incident and that despite finding no gunman at the scene, that the issue for them was over. Personally, given disasters in the past such as Columbine I'd have taken the stance that until the gunman was caught that it was NOT over! Considering bomb threats 1 week previous you would think a different attitude would have prevailed. Hindsight is a terrible thing and I guess those involved wished to God they had acted differently.

 

what should i say?

 

That America is the greatest nation in THE world?

 

How do we know it isn't influenced by them though? :shrug:

Edit: Also the guns he used he bought from a gunstore. That is the single biggest cause of this whole mess. America needs to change its gun laws. No one needs a gun any more.

 

What was the gun he used? I've been hearing rumors it was a automatic. If so, then why the hell are we allowing people to get guns like that? They have no use for hunting, and go far above the use of protection.

 

ask your ol' fren heston for that.

 

Good lord people, don't turn this tragedy into an anti-gun/anti-American argument. Show some respect.

He used a 9mm and a .22

 

I have friends up there, but so far I've heard there relativaly unharmed. =(

The news needs to stop vulturing all these kids!

 

The right to bare arms is NOT and NEVER was about hunting. It is a right to protect ourselves not only from violent crime, but also the right to maintain a power to push back an oppressive and misguided governmental system, if the need should ever arise. It just so happens that we live in such a time that the people are willing to eat whatever the 'powers that be' are willing to put in front of them. If there was no right to bare arms, there may not have been an American Civil war...

I am an American Citizen and I support the right to gun ownership.
I'm not trying to push my views on anyone here and I suggest that all of you do the same.

 

I hope you feel your right to bare arms is worth the inevitable price you're seeing here.

 

A demented person will use what ever to do harm regardless of the materials he/she views in their daily life. Lets not all forget that we have a board member who was stabbed with a set of car keys, Was that act motivated by GTA or violent video games?

:noooo:

To go a little further. It has now been disclosed that the killer is of South Korean decent. You going to tell me he did this because he played starcraft and that gave him the idea to comit mass murder?

There are far more game players out there then there are crimes commited by game players. A person who is mentaly unstable is going to kill regardless if they played video games are not. Jack has zero basis for his arguments relating to video games.

 

You're right! My eyes have been opened and I will turn over a new leaf!

I forgot that in the UK violent crime has been eradicated due to superior legislation.

This is some fine hipocrisy as well. How can anyone sit here and say that violent media is not to blame, yet in the next breath condemn guns for their role?

That's complete lunacy, just take subbie's arguements and sub guns for video games and you've got a start.

I really do not wish to discuss this here as I'm not looking to cause a division in the boards. I like you Alchy and Parris and many others that have voiced anti gun sentiments. I'm not going to let that jade my view of any of you. You've got the right to your opinion and I've got mine. so let's just drop it if you please.

 

I will, but I'd like to point out that it's pretty bad form to provoke someone with sarcasm and insults, and then request the closure of said argument. Out of respect I'll drop it, but you ought to know better than to play the situation for the last word.

 

You're right I should have known better and I would like to apologize for that. Thanks for dropping it though.

*note that this is not an attempt at a last word, but what I see as a necessary apology.

 

I truly hope this is not going to be another hi-jacked thread!

Whether you agree to baring arms (for any reason what-so-ever) or not you have got to question why that right is extended to the point that in Virginia you can purchase a semi-automatic weapon without ID, without a background check or even having to declare ownership? That is not a right, that is in my humble opinion the source of such issues. Anyone, irrespective of their mental health and prior history can legally obtain a semi-automatic in certain states of USA.

In the wrong hands you can see the net results of that right. Consider the human rights of the victims and their families and try to argue whos rights are better to uphold and whos rights are being violated. Gun ownership should be a priviledge granted through strict controls and measures rather than a god given right fought to the death 'cause you are allowed. One of these poor people being killed should be evidence enough. 33 lives is more than anyone could ever justify and I truly hope that America re-considers it's gun laws, especially the apparent lax attitude towards the right to bare arms.

Whether you are a member of a gun club or an anti-gun campaigner, I can't see ANY arguement that justifies the ownership of such weaponry. :noooo:

Just as a means of comparison the UK troops have lost roughly 140 service men and women since the beginning of the Iraq war. If either America or UK (or any other alliance country) had lost 33 service personnel in one battle it would considered a huge loss, a massive defeat. These were unarmed, innocent members of the public going about their ordinary lives.

As one American friend explained to me this morning as he prepared to go to Uni "this could happen on any US campus...", it could happen to people you know. The answer does not lie in having more weapons, but less.

 

Respect for what? The gun law? No way, and why should I? No one needs a gun in America, it is that simple. Respect for the dead? I have that respect and no better result can come out of this now than for politicians and the people of America to look inward and make changes so this kind of thing can't happen again.

Not all violence is the result of exposure to violence in the media, no, of course not. However, to think that exposure to such violence does not have an impact on the population at all would be misguided. If someone is already unhinged, plays games like GTA AND can go to the local gun store and legally purchase firearms then you have a time bomb waiting to go off. There are plenty of nutters out there and this kind of thing is not an isolated incident. My opinion is that guns should be banned (EDIT: or at the very least more strictly controlled).

South Koreans can access the same violent media we can. He also lived in the US as a student along with his family. Why would Starcraft be the sole cause? I don't think just games are an influence either. There are plenty of horrific sadistic movies (such as Saw) released every single year. They too are an influence.

I'm really not sure what the answer is to violent media, but I believe it has a real affect on people.

The problem is that guns allow for quick and multiple murders. Sure, a lunatic could run wild in a subway with a knife, but you have more of a chance protecting yourself from said knife than a bullet in the head. So should they ban knives? No, knives have many purposes and are part of daily life. Should they ban guns? IMO yes, guns are only used for killing things.

Arguments about guns providing a protection against the government are crazy. No gun will protect you from government forces if they were intending to take you down. Even an armed militia would stand no chance against the US military. This is the year 2007, not the frontier times or the wild west. The second amendment is not aimed at an anti-establishment movement, it harks back to a time when there was insufficient an army to protect the USA from invasion or settlers from the natives.

 

Statistically speaking, then people with guns has a higher probability of getting killed with a gun, or getting killed with their own gun. Than those without guns, ok I am against guns, but I like to look at them, since I see a gun, or a knife for that matter as a tool. Not as a weapon.
I think you all know that I have a collectors permit for bladed weapons. Since I think they are pretty, and I have no double standards about it. But to me, I think the whole tragedy is terrible, and it is not the violent video games fault, and not even the violent kung fu movies before the games that is to blame. It is the weapons law that is to blame, take it or leave it. But it is maybe the truth here. Since you can buy a gun, before you can fuck and drink, but who says afterwards you can´t drink and fuck afterwards , because you have a gun ?

Maybe there should be a little change in some laws over there. That first when you 21 there could write for a license for one weapon at the time ?

And as 18 you could vote, instead of registretating you as a voter ? and maybe even change the law about fucking, so the legal age of fucking was 15 ?

Maybe then the guns, would perhaps have a more hard way of getting in the hands of kids ?

But well, I could be just bullshitting all the way with my views . But heck who knows ? I don´t know, since it is just a suggestion really.

 

Man you guys are just contradicting each others, what have america become:-(

 

They are arguing, it happens quite a lot on the Internet. What does that have to do with the state of America today?

And Wolverine, let me get this straight, your answer to gun crime is to lower the age of consent? Even by your standards that's crazy.