Virginia Tech shooting - at least 32 dead

Because an entire country can be fully represented by a few people on an internet forum...

Why did this have to turn into a gun debate? Pro-gun or not, a psychopath was the one who pulled the trigger. That is my point of view on the subject. To take something this tragic and use it to throw your opinions on other people (who in all likelyhood aren't interested) is a pretty selfish thing to do.

My university is holding a candlelight vigil tonight (which, unfortunately, I won't be able to attend due to other commitments - passing a class). It's kind of surreal that something so monumentally terrible would come out of nowhere, but that's how these things go.

 

I think you may have just answered your own question their dude, it was a "psychopath" able to purchase a weapon. Better guns laws could have prevented that. Hence people questioning whether gun ownership in the US should be quite so liberal that someone with mental health issues was able to just walk in, pick up a gun, walk out and....

The rest is what he did, but the beginnings of every sad story is the actions leading to that moment.

I am NOT Anti-American, but I am against lax laws that allow others liberties to be taken from them needlessly.

 

Drop the damn gun debate already. The UK proves that guns are able to be procured whether they are legal or not. The reason that gun control is "off topic" is because, like religion and politics, people generally feel either one way or the other about it. You will NOT be able to change the minds of the people who believe differently than you, regardless of how silly or false you think their arguments are and regardless of how much you try to pound your point into them.

 

Parris , ok about the consent shit. Anyway I had a stupid brain wave through me there.

Parris, perhaps I haven´t been assaulted by a deadly weapon, but when I look at my bladed weapons, then I really do think they are pretty in design, such as my katana and etc. Of course I know the original purpose of many of my bladed weapons were killing. But that doesn´t they can´t be pretty. And why am I saying tools ? because when I use my knifes, then I see them as tools. Such as to filet a beef, or a fish, and so forth. When I look at a gun as a tool. Then it isn´t in the context of killing, but using it, only in hunting . And shooting practice, but never in killing people. But that is because I don´t see the weapon as a way of killing (heck my philosophy here is guns does not kill people, but people kill people, wether it is with guns. Or without anyway). And no I am not anti American , so I hope that isn´t adressed to me.

And if you talk about scared for life, then I am sorry. I experienced something last year, that scared me shitless. And well weapons doesn´t need to be there in physical shape to scare. It can also be in figurely, since I was threatened last year on my life, by a person who would stab me down next time he met me. Heck I even wrote about it on the forum, so Parris being assualted with or without a weapon is still making people scared for life.

And I feel I must repeat myself again, I feel the accident with the nutjob is terrible and , horrible.

Is that clear ?

 

"drop the damn gun debate... (continues on with the gun debate)"

 

A: Drop the damned gun debate.... ok! No more discussion on the weapon used to commit the atrocity yesterday or how the gunman managed to obtain it. End of.

B: UK gun law is one of the strictest in Europe and as such the number of gun crimes and deaths relating to gun accidents or violence is relatively low by comparison to most other countries. This was partly due to IRA in the 70's, 80's and several events since then, such as Dunblane. To own a gun in the UK (legally) you are required to jump through SO many hoops it is virtually impossible. You are also not allowed to own a fire arm and store it in your home (unless you are required to use one in your job i.e. farmers, vets etc).

We have laws which state that we cannot use undue force. In other words if someone broke into my home, I saw them and they turned to flee I could not shoot them in the back. It's like rock, papers, scissors in the UK. If they pull a knife, that means you can too, if not, then you can't unless they used force greater or it looked like your life were in danger and the knife was all that was too hand. Actually, unless the person drew a gun on me, I could not use one on them. In fact, if it was proved I pursued them and gave them a kicking I could be charged with assualt. Nuts isn't it!

C: My understanding of off-topic must be different from yours and I appreciate you explination. I generally feel that most people have differing views on a great many things in life and as such the majority of material posted could be classed as off topic. In this sense off topic seems to suggest "don't mention it" to which I would reply "what?" The weapon used, so revert to A.

D: I am not here to change peoples minds. Anyone who has their mind made up in any particular direction is hardly going to be persuaded by a thread, especially when those involved in the thread resolve to throw mud around. If people are not prepared to listen to either side of a debate how on earth can people learn? I gave up making my voice heard on the internet a long time ago. You have everything from whacked out crazy loon juice talk to pseudo religiousity zealot and whatever lies between scattering their seed of debate on the net. As far as I was concerned, this thread was a decent little chat amongst likeminded console devotees affected by the tragic and needless deaths of students in an American campus?

I am probably one of the most liberally minded people on the planet and to be accused of stirring things up is laughable. Perhaps it would do you good to go back to my posts and actually re-read them and see the sympathy I have conveyed to the families, the people involved and the situation at hand. If I have somehow upset or offended anyone in the meantime by questioning how such an event could occur then so be it. I'd rather hurt someones feelings than stand aside and not question the situation.

 

Parris, your first post, although very heart felt and decent, used the term "psychopathic gun nut" and for me that kind of set the mood for the rest of the topic.

Like I said earlier, I like you and the way you post, but that just seemed in bad taste.

 

WDK** Not calling you Anti-American. That was a separate statement.

Not impassioned by the same flame as you evidently as I walk past a knives & fake / decommissioned guns shop on my way to work and shudder at the sight of the buggers! Whatever floats your boat I guess!

As for using them to skin animals, hunt for food... I recommend any Supermarket and a tin opener lol ;-)

Crystal clear matey!

 

Okay, point taken. It was perhaps in part my own damned fault. Any one who knows me well enough (and why should they on this site) will know I have a mental health issue and like all disabled person, I feel I can make such jokes without recourse to the politically correct lobby! My apologies!

I also felt that anyone capable of lining up students and killing them in such a manner must have been deeply disturbed.

Let me make one thing clear, I am NOT suggesting gun owners are all psychopathic or "gun nuts" and if that is what's caused this entire debate to esculate out of control then I apologise prefusely to any gun owners. I am NOT anti gun, I am against lax regulations. I agree wholeheartedly that it's the person pointing the gun and pulling the trigger who at fault.

The dynamic of this is that bad laws create poor safety and increases the opportunity for those who have mental health issues or an axe to grind with society to discharge their too easily obtained weapons.

Is that perhaps a clearer definition of my stance? Will this let me slightly off the Hook?

Also, this is most definately a cultural difference as in the UK you would NOT consider owning a gun to protect yourself, concealed or otherwise. It is just alien to the vast majority of the UK population.

 

Supermarkets don't carry Deer meat.;-)

Thats about the only time we use guns though. They are locked up in a gun cabinet 9/10 of the year.

 

Ah, American supermarkets need to upgrade!! Ikea (a Swedish company) sells deer meat and even deer paste!!! Venison is beautiful, as is wild boar. Never tried to hunt one for myself, but if I discharged a weapon I'd probably shit myself. OH:

 

Ok, I can see how that could be misread. I was merely trying to point out that guns exist regardless of whether they are legal.

 

Point taken ;-)

 

I know I'm a complete asshole for bringing this up, but anyone that sincerely believes this statement (and you are 100% entitled to your opinion) cannot seriously advocate that drugs should be illegal. "They will exist whether they are legal or not". You can't shoot anyone w/ a joint either.

Yeah, I know... Pandora's box. Still...

 

I'm not advocating anything. I am very careful to keep my views on gun control, religion, non-gaming related politics and other polarizing issues off the grid so to speak. People generally develop an opinion one way or the other and no amount of dialog will change that.

 

You made a point... I made another point. Both of which I think are true. I do, however, think that if you could somehow get the number of guns drastically dropped, violent crimes would go down as well. It's just not in the cards at this point, IMHO.

 

Fair enough.

 

Irrespective of our differing opinions on the legality, laws, issues and situation regarding guns, I think (and this I am 100% sure about) we are all in agreement that the events at Virginia Tech were horrific and absolutely needless. That level of violence & carnage exacted on fellow human beings cannot and never could be seen as acceptable. Clearly murder occurs when something in society goes terribly wrong. It might not have appeared it, but I feel that it's perhaps a very emotive & personal topic to discuss on these boards.

As I was told "you will never change opinions" but you can change your own. I can see why certain people's tempers were flaired when I mentioned gun laws as they are clearly angered that I was lumping all gun owners together. That's almost as bad as Jack Thompson's attitude that all gamers are influenced by violent games (or any for that matter).

I do not for a second agree with all the pro or anti comments that have been made. I'm holding my tongue though as it's pointless to reignite that anger, it only serves to enflame those passions in other people and before you know it we will all be virtually tussling over the floor and name calling like Kindergarten enfants lol TRUCE!!!!

It does highlight certain cultural, ethical, political & lifestyle differences, which in the interest of debate and for future reference regarding locking threads is of significance. I'd thank Paulo and other admin /mods for not locking the thread and allowing the debate to run its course. A lesson has been learnt on this side of the pond (at least). It gives me an insight into how this issue has been viewed in American and abroad.

Perhaps in such arguements the admin / mods are better to step in as Paulo did, explain that complaints are piling up and to tone the levels down a bit as you can (I admit it) get rather carried away whilst discussing emotive issues and I can assure you the intention was never to offend. Considering the criticism that has sometimes been levelled about the locking of threads, I think Paulo did a good job of maintaining the thread and pulling it out of a lock down situation :clap:

I do however apologise to the initial poster, whom I hope does not feel angry that his very important & timely comments were being hi-jacked and taken off course at such a sensative moment. I'm big enough to simply say - sorry!

 

well said... conclusion gun sucks, close topic. Kthxbye.

 

I actually wasted my time reading the posts made after mine and all of about 1 person took my advise before this turned into a gun debate...