Virginia Tech shooting - at least 32 dead

Indeed, take for example the muslin veil: I know its part of their religion but pal, this is the west and when you go to rome you gotta do what romans do.

Like, try (being a woman) to go into saudi arabia without a veil and see how the muslims react. Shouldnt they respect you since you arent a muslim and technically, a minority?

Plus I see all this as a big hypocrisy, like angelina jolie picking up one orphan between millons of them.

Like, letting 1 of every 1000 muslims (who got their lands burned, their houses destroyed and their relatives killed, all for the sake of cheap oil) come to the west and having to tolerate their anger (yet not actually help them) is kinda a half assed solution to say the least.

After all, muslims in the middle east keep dying in wars and the low and middle class of the west has to live with those who could escape (with the usual consequences) so the Elite in both sides (east and west) can enjoy their blood-stained wealth...

The solution is simple: get some electric cars and nuclear stations, then get fuck away from the middle east.

If you dont mess with the muslims they wont mess with you...

 

Shadowlayer: it sounds like you have heard of Asmaa Abdol-Hamid, who is number seven on The Unity List on their voting list, in Denmark (enhedlisten in Danish, a political party) who is in a political turmoil in Denmark. Because she wants to wear the veil, and she won´t give the hand in a hello to men.

http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Politik/2007/04/27/115340.htm

 

Is that a slang term for the ole "Bangkok Handshake" or does that mean she won't shake hands?

Okay, I'll say it. Chinese. I don't have a problem w/ them, but you must admit, they are somewhat reclusive. (Although most Chinatowns thrive on tourism). I can't remember what country it was, but a large one prohibited Chinese (and only Chinese) from buying land as they felt they didn't offer anything back to the community. Thailand has a similar law, but it's all aliens, not just Chinese.

 

the UAE used to have laws like that (but now property is sold in Dubai for example)

I m surprised how many chinese can't speak propper English, yet have been here (UK) for years. They re hard working people, but I can't understand their inability to learn basic communication skills.

I witnessed once a person in a Bank , trying to explain that she wanted to open an account. Needless to say, the poor lady serving that customer was putting extra effort in making stuff "Extra simple", yet the Chinese party did not understand almost anything said!

When asked how many years the customer had been living in the UK, the customer replied "4".

I was shocked O_O

 

can we switch away from the relgious discussion to the shooting related ? please

 

She won´t shake hands with men. And lol to the other handshake :lol::lol::lol:

 

Never heard of that, but I bet she wouldnt be so keen on having muslim law in the west if that included being stoned (and not with pot...) to death for pretty much any violations to the code of conduct, like in many arabian and african countries of muslim religion.

I see the problem with the chinese is different: they dont like to be "westernized" yet they wont mess with you. Muslims on the other side HATE everyone whos different, and will engage in a fight over that, like Nazis and that shit.

I never saw a chinese trying to convert me to buddhism (or some other chinese religion) yet muslims want everyone to be as fuck up as they are, becos (like us) they're monotheists, and therefore reject any other cults, religions or gods.

The difference is, unless you go to the "Deep South" you wont find a place in the west where religion is still above the law like it is on the middle east. We've advanced in that aspect as so should they.

Muslims live in the past guys, they still live like in the days of the crusades, and even believe Spain is muslim territory! what a bunch of lunatics...

 

Whoa there cowboy!

I happen to live with Muslims in my flat, and they have never ever tried to impose their ways or beliefs upon me. They don't treat me as if i m unclean and they re super-clean or whatever either, although I drink, eat pork, etc in their presence. They re just as kind and polite as any other human I ve met, regardless of personal beliefs.

I m sure if there are any Muslim members in our board, they would take great offence in your claims such as:

You just labelled millions of people who believe in a certain religion as "Nazis" and "Lunatics".

Try and replace the word Muslim, with the world Black, Christian or Jew, and read what you posted. Maybe then you'll realize what you just said.


You criticize Muslims for being intolerant, but you just damned an entire religion. You should learn to have some respect for other people's beliefs. Not every Muslim is a terrorist, not every Jew is Hitler, not every African American a crime lord/gangster, and not every white American is a member of the KKK.

 

What an incredibly broad generalisation. Muslims = nazis, eh? Where do you come up with this stuff.

It's none of your business how they run their country...

...and it's none of your business how they dress. It's amusingly hypocritical how on the one hand, you criticise them for forcing Western women to wear a burkha, and on the other hand demand that they wear what you say when they are in your country. I mean, I agree with you to a certain extent -if you're not interested in integrating into a society, then you shouldn't move there- but demanding that a person change their attire is ridiculous, it's narrow-minded and, like Barc0de says, xenophobic. I know they do it; don't make the same mistake.

 

Shadowlayer, do you know how deeply offensive the comments are that you have posted regarding Muslims? An ill informed racist slur of a people so commonly found everywhere that you wouldn't know a Muslim if he should shout Allah at you! If you knew the least bit about Muslims you would actually retract everything you have written and apologise. I am NOT Muslim, but I know many Muslims and they are the kindest, gentlest, peaceful people you could care to meet. To decry them all as terrorists and hate mongers is illogical and offensive. People have been banned for less.

A small, but fantatical faction of zealots have literally high-jacked the Muslim faith and subverted the teachings to engage disenfranchised members of a widespread and extremely diverse ethnic group. Do you even know that there are various factions of Mulsims, who don't even acknowledge that the other factions are Muslim? That is part of the current problem in Iraq as not only are you seeing insurgency, but civil war. Caught in the middle of all of this are Allied troops trying to appreciate and understand the culture of the area they find themselves in.

Muslims (as a blanket description) make up a huge percentage of the faithful on the face of the planet and frankly if the Muslim people wanted to rise up en masse to pilage the face of the earth and convert us all from Christianity (or whatever) they would have already done so. People convert to Islam, they are not forced to do so. It is a religious choice. Nazis were facists and you either agreed, or you were sent to camps and the vast majority never returned.

That Muslims are an increasingly vocal & angry section of our community is in part due to the increased level of intolerance of them & their faith. Until 9/11 most people had no understanding of Muslims and their ideology. To have declared war or on terrorists is one thing, to declare war on a religion is an entirely different thing and one of George W. Bush's biggest gaffs was to describe it as such - a Crusade! Indeed, that immediately made it an us & them situation with religion at its core.

Fundamentalists everywhere rejoiced at that blunder as Bush had walked blindly into the precise entrenchment that the zealots & terrorists had wanted.

Muslims are not hate mongers, people haters & terrorists! Even the word Jihad has become so misunderstood and fueled with venom that it's real meaning has become forgotten. You see Jihad and you think "they mean war". Someone says "we declare Jihad" and they don't realise its meaning. It now has military overtones, but it originally meant to defend Islam (peacefully) and to better ones self. Not death to all who don't believe in Islam.

Can you not see that when you label people as such, of course they are going to get angry. The moment you point at anyone and say "You hate us!" you will raise intolerance levels through the roof. How can anyone be expected to defends themselves if they are actually not attacking you, but being attacked BY you?

Let me make one thing utterly clear as I have seen such comments posted before and rounded on as anti-American. I am NOT anti-American, I am NOT pro terrorist, but in order to effectively engage with the enemy you must firstly disengage from the bullshit & hype!

Muslims have been utterly misrepresented, and putting them even remotely in the same camp as Nazis is incredibly offensive.

There are many aspects of the Muslim faith which confuse outside notions that they are all terrorists and those core values have been challenged at the highest levels of the faith by the most respected elders & clerics. It is a culture in as much shock at discovering it's faith has been twisted out of context and used to preach violence as it is at odds with modern society. I don't agree with many aspects of Muslim faith, but genuine Muslims believe in peace. That is at the very heart of the faith.

You mention Nazis and Muslims in one breath. What the Nazis managed to do was spread fear, loathing, isolationism and facist dogma through ignorance and violence. You agreed or you were punished. The iron rod of xenophobia worked across great swathes of Europe. The democratic nations upheld the belief of freedom, democracy and peace. In that comes responsiblity to learn about others and accept their faith, their ways and their voice even when challenging. I agree that it should be a two way street, that when you arrive in a democratic, open, free society with differing values and perspectives that you should intergrate into the society that provides you shelter and home. However, I have often wondered about the notion of home. Home is such a fluid concept that when people move, they move home. They move from and to, to and from. They carry their own beliefs with them and don't immediately leave them at Customs. How appropriate that the place you are accepted finally into a country is called Customs as you arrive with your own customs, belief and ways. In many ways you attempt to uphold part of what was your old life and that can & often does put you in direct conflict with your new home. I digress, but I think this is a pretty interesting area of study.

Just where your notion of Muslims comes from I have no idea, but I think it might say more about paranoia than it does about democracy. If you think that America and the free thinking world is being brought to it's knees by the Muslim faith then you are pointing you criticism and weapons in the wrong direction. If you are about to attack anyone swiftly, incognito, where would you come from? You'd travel in a large group, associate yourself with a large organisation, you'd hide in it's ranks and spread your words of disease to rot the core of democracy.

Muslims have been fighting against that very rotten core that undermines their principals and are outraged at the fact that the terrorists have managed so successfully to penetrate our minds. How do I know all this, because I listen.

People & nations play with the notion and word terrorist because it suits their agenda. Surely you'll have seen various nations suddenly suggest that they are rife with terrorists as justification for their outrageous acts against one side or another? I am naming no names, but it's plain as the nose on my face and having mentioned the terrorist word so frequently here there and everywhere for political gain & support, we think the world is mad with blood thirsty terrorists all joining together under the Muslim faith and tunneling into the democracy we uphold. Nonsense.

One of the strongest pillars of the Islamic faith is that women, children & non-combatants should not be drawn into any violent acts made in their name. That is a fundamental belief as strongly held as "thou shalt not kill". The definition of terrorism is the act of using violence against civilians, women, children and non-combatants. Terrorism actually cuts directly across the faith of Islam. It is proof that any violent acts are not condoned by the Islamic faith. The rogue factions exist, but they are a minority who are not genuine Muslims as their actions are against the faith of Islam and Allah's teachings. To go against Allah is actually Jihad! So, you see now why Muslims are so deeply concerned about their place in their own faith, society and their future?

Thats one of the reasons the war against terrorism is so aimless. As a western group of democracies waging wars against various factions in various areas of the world, we have blundered into age long disputes. We have spread ourselves thinly looking for the axis of evil as it it were one distinct group. It's not.

It's no more one facade as it is any other pseudo religious hate mongers riding on the back of people belief's to set one against the other. Damn it, did you ever get taught world politics?

Sorry man, but I don't think such racist slander can be accepted and go unchallenged. I'm sure you're a really nice guy, even if ill informed and basing your opinions on one TV channels reportage.

 

I knew that last point was on shaky ground when I wrote it and you are correct. I can understand the need to be near familiar ground when moving to a new country. I do feel there is a difference though between the immigrants that moved into those neighborhoods back then and the ones that do now.

Originally these neighborhoods were created really out of racial and ethnic prejudice. They stuck together because they weren't accepted. Later on as these prejudices decreased however they became more of a stopgap. A place to start out and learn the ropes with the goal of eventually moving into the mainstream of their new society. Now though it seems the goal of many people in these neighborhoods is to simply stick to their original culture without trying to adapt while still enjoying all of the benefits that the host country provides. And while I’m sure there were always some like this it just feels to me like there are many more of these types of immigrants today than there were in the past.

For the record I am speaking in general terms and not about one country or another. I admit though that many of my opinions are based on some of the current problems the US is facing with illegal immigration.

 

You know is funny you guys dont get the irony of all this.

Like for example when I describe the itolerance of their religion I make a small correction and say "like us", get it? Theres still extreme right parties in europe, and some christian fanatics are as dangerous as islamic fanatics are.

Look, I made a mistake between lines when I didnt mention that what I meant is that in a large part (not the whole but a big chunk nonetheless) of these people do live on the past. Dunno about your case barc0de, but its ONE ok? on my case I have seen at least several, and even many of these people in my trips to spain.

You guys should go there and see it with your own eyes (not a problem, since you can take a train just like that) Theres some neighborhoods in spain where you cant pass without getting beaten up by muslim gangs becos "its muslim territory" as they will tell you that.

Some of them still believe you can sell and or buy a wife, WTF? and lets not talk about women rights: some of them could beat the crap out of their wives if they dare to go to a gyn/ob. c'mon! seriously, would you ratter wait and see if that little thing becomes a cancer or what? is not like the doctor is getting a wood over looking at that...

Do I care what they do in their countries? no I dont, and I've already said that the best solution to the problems in the middle east is to cut all types of western interventionism in the zone.

The problem is that they DO care what WE do in OUR coutries, and even want to change some of our hard-earned laws to accomodate their laws. I ask you again: do you think they would change some of their laws to accomodate ours? for example, why every woman has to use a veil in saudi arabia, even if they arent muslim?

And this takes me to the nest point: women abuse. You know is kinda funny you all get so furious with me saying some muslims act like nazis. Maybe we should ask that muslim cleric from australia, who in the case of a girls that was brutally raped by a muslim gang he said "well is her fault for wearing those lewd clothes"...

....

And its not the only one, not at all. I would expect that kind of response from the perpetrators, but a religious eminence? Is like hearing the pope say "well there was this holocaust-thing in germany, a butt-load of jews got killed in it, but hey, shit happens, right?"

That would help neonazi groups everywhere, and in a deeply religious society like islamics, what a cleric says is written on stone. So idiots like these actually encourage their own to wreak havoc in foreign societies. And, just like the europeans who didnt do anything to stop hitler and the holocaust, those muslim who dont try to stop those members of their, shall we say, "religious group" who try to fight a dumb jihad against christians will, at the end, pay the price of those idiot's actions. I have seen it many times, and I'm afraid that if a extreme-right party was elected in england (as a consequence of an even larger part of english society thinking muslims are dangerous) would be barc0de's friendly neighbors who may end up in jail (or worst). The idiot hatemongers that used to rape girls and beat people up (ergo, those who gave society a reason to hate muslims) will find their way out of the country, like all criminals do.

But wanna hear the most funny part of all? you all said "terrorist" at least 13 times, yet I NEVER mention it, nor I said muslim were terrorist at all. Of all of my complaints against the muslims and islam, terrorism is NOT one of them. I can describe muslims as many things, but dangerous? nope, not at all. I believe we're far more dangerous since we are able to wipe the entire middle east in a second if we wanted to. Thats dangerous, a bomb in a bus is nothing compared to missiles.

BTW, someone (I think barc0de) mentioned this is the result of the years of european exploitation of foreign territories. Well you may be right dude, but the fact is that letting one in 10000 muslims enter the EU and live in a ghetto is a pretty lousy indemnification for all those years of looting in the middle east, specially by england and france.

Wouldnt be better to help them rebuild their countries? after all is well known that a religious backwards society can only flourish when most of the population lives in dirt poor conditions.

Just look at europe in the middle ages and tell me I'm wrong.

 

...?

 

Dude why you always reply my posts with a question mark? is that my writting is that abstract?

 

You equated all muslims to nazis. Ok, this is some new kind of irony that I'm not familiar with.

Oh! So now you're qualified to make sweeping generalisations about the entirity of followers of the muslim faith. Right.

If you don't know the difference between England and Britain, just stop. Stop talking about international issues as though you know what you're talking about. Your writing isn't "abstract", it's just ignorant.

 

Definitely ignorant..

 

Alchy, I made my point, you were the ignorant who supposed that that while you agree on some points, you also keep on insulting me with no real accusations.

If you cant understand my arguments its your problem, not mine, and I wont waste any more time trying to explain it to you, since you're obviously not interested in changing your point of view. Is funny, you criticize my point about muslims and nazis, yet you make no effort to try to understand my opinion, just keep yourself stucked in your narrow point of view, like an actual Nazi would do. What next? a purge?

And I mentioned england becos it was that country, nor scotland or ireland, the one that made the blueprints of the empire that ruled the world for 200 years or more.

Why should accuse the whole of UK when it was England who made the decisions?

EDIT: this is going no where, and even so should be moved to the unmoderated thread, since its way too offtopic if you look at the original subject.

 

You're making this quite easy, you know.

Clearly, you're talking about current-day England. It's kind of irrelevant, anyway; the point at which you refuse to actually answer my objections to your own posts, and resort to calling me a nazi, is the point at which it becomes clear to everyone reading that you have truly lost any argument that you think you're engaged in.

I've said it before, but I think it's apt here, too: I read your squirming just fine. You can't wriggle out of the posts you've already made; they speak for themselves.

EDIT: concur with Shadowlayer's move to the unmoderated thread, just hope that these posts don't get deleted.

 

Did sexilicious ever reply that hes ok after all this? Wasn't he there when it happened?

 

Shadowlayer has just done the same as Søren Krarup(a Danish Peoples Party member who is a priest at the same time) said the other day, he compared the veil with the nazi sign , and said both things were totalitarian.

But you are not going to hear my opinion about it.