Your stance on emulation

technically speaking when u run downloaded Demos on ur XBOX 360, u r doing emulation. Optical Disc Emulation (Oldengineer, feel free to correct me if ODEM doesnt take place)

But even professionals use emulation. Emulation is useful when you re developing games. Even the GC and other consoles had Emulators before actual hardware was manufactured and handed out. Emulation is useful. Emulation might facilitate illegal rom distribution, but it does not authorize it.

 

Well technically speaking isn't the running of original Xbox software on the 360 emulation too? (Again OE correct me if I am wrong).

I think there is a distinction to be made between legitimate, industry based emulation and those cracking open coding to use Sony PSP units (for instance) to run Sega material.

Again, I am trying not to be anti or pro. I am sitting on the fence as I can see both sides of this particular arguement and feel that the industry has made a real hash of keeping abreast of the gaming communities desire to use older, generally obsolete material on current (or more up to date) equipment.

When it's down well it really does enhance the gaming experience. I have collected several revamped Xbox titles of old 8-bit and arcade games for that very reason. I missed having them around!

Anyway, my knowledge on this matter is rather limited to my own personal bias. I am really interested to hear others opinions.

<Re Mute records......please don't even go there!> I am as miffed off as many others that such an inspirational label is no longer completely independent.

 

I m no OE when it comes to XBOX, but yes, the running of original XBOX titles on the 360 is emulation. And juding by Conker, pretty damn good emulation ( I d kill to see the source code on that, just imagine how many lines written in pure asm! )

@Parris : independence doesn't last, eventually, everyone has to get 'married' or 'die old and lonely' (Even in the company's context)

 

Judging by the piss poor framerate on vice city, i was less impressed with it.

 

I'm not OE, but technically, no.

-hl718

 

My bad then, OE and the mysterious hl718

 

Actually there are many, many independent record labels and they generally don't get bought up by larger labels. What might occur (and this confuses some as the main label has the right to have their brand logo on the packaging) is that the independent signs a deal re major label distribution. This generally happens in Europe and may NOT be the same in US or elsewhere.

Like you though, the few original Xbox titles I have tried appear to run relatively well and I can see a difference in graphics on some titles. As I have kept my original unit and some of the better titles don't yet run on the 360 I usually don't bother with it though.

 

The perceived high price of some classics is not proof that devaluation doesn't exist. If anything, it suggests that without emulator induced piracy Radiant Silvergun would fetch a lot more than $200.

 

Jeilong, and you think it's fair to pay more than 200$ for a game? I understand the whole 'collector' concept, but give me a break.

The game is not worth 200$ to play, or it would be sold at that price when it was initially sold in stores. People who 'complain' about the price having dropped (on commercial games not unreleased games) since emulation has been out, should stop being so greedy, because once they paid much less to originally obtain the title

 

Interesting idea, but although I would never actually pay 200 USD for 1 game, I know of people who do. Supply and demand is an entirely different thing to the original query of the thread and we'd really go off topic if we started to question whether in actual fact the hardware & software we collectors purchase are really worth the price we pay for them!

You probably feel that way when you are wanting to purchase a particular item, but the moment you sell something to someone else you are more than likely just like all of us, wanting to get a good return for a hard to obtain item you cherished.

It is also pure speculation whether emulation helps to keep prices down on second-hand material as the bulk of emulated material is illegal and nobody has actually written a comprehensive guide to gaming equipment like a second hand car valuation guide, record collections or antiques.

The possibility of being ripped off regarding gaming stuff by rogue traders is inifinite and not linked to emulation in any way. That is why sites like this are invaluable to collectors and enthusiasts as here you can generally bump into long established gamers who know roughly what things are worth and are willing to discuss.

 

I m suggesting that unreleased or limited edition material does diserve a high re-sale price.

What I dislike is the geometrical leap of the price for an item recently acquired for standard price.

eg: Asking 200 for game X on the Atari 2600 seems more fair than asking 200 for Radiant Silvergun.

As for the gaming content:

Let collectors value their items for the material objects they are; But let gamers enjoy the software for the idea it presents.

Emulation gives people that possibility. It's a pitty to sacrifice everything in the way of a possible profit, especially when the acquisition price was not high.

For example:

If one has paid 200 for item X, then selling below that would be to his detriment. As such, the object carries a genuine price of 200 upwards.

Nevertheless, if one has a game he got for 50, and it's a very nice game, allowing other people to take a glimpse at what was, and emulate (not simulate) is not absurd!

 

You can't really seperate the collectors from the gamers or expect the two to pay different prices. Who is shoving the prices up on certain items? Those collecting and trying to complete a series, a line or a region or a gamer who is desperate to play game "X" because he/she can't live without it?

Most collectors I know are gamers ergo more gamers are collectors. I doubt that there are many who buy the items NEVER to use them!

but we really are taking this off topic h:

 

Oh dear this really is becoming the "Barcode & Parris" show...someone else come in and argue with us please!

 

there's no barcode, just barc0de sir! xD

PS: Scotland has some nice girls

 

Nothing beats the experience of playing on the original machine - other than the fact that no emulation can be 100% perfect (although pretty close, almost undetectably so), its just the whole atmosphere of playing it in the original way. Same goes for cheat carts! Great for seeing hidden features (e.g. Goldeneye) but why cheat?

That said, emulators are pretty useful for understanding technical details about a machine, programming etc. Oh, and "backup" devices save you having to get your carts out all the time, haha!

Going OT, Barc0de I sent you a (non-related) PM

 

I think you've missed the reason people play games.

I don't play a game because the upper left pixel on the screen twinkles between light blue and pink. I play for the thrill of the action. The aspect ratio or non-flickering images doesn't change the action.

Even in the 80s, TV varied in quality (and size). And, I think you'd be hard pressed today to find two TVs (or arcade monitors) that are set up exactly the same.

 

(old, I know, but...)

Jeilong has missed some blaring facts about emulation. Mainly that emulation gives the wrong impression of how the game should look and feel. It's a fact that these "collections" released lately and whatnot are simply emulation. The emulator is often supported by the publisher of the game -- that's the only difference. We don't here people bitching about these. Also these people could be blinded since they're putting in a disc into a console. Unfortunately, these emulated collections rarely support the arcade/console's original resolutions, and therefore look worse than on a "proper" emulation setup (see below).

Also, even running emulation on a computer, this is not the case. Get an Ultimarc arcade card, and an emulator that supports the consoles original resolutions, and I will challenge anyone to tell me which is which (assuming I can hide the end of the controller port).

 

:noooo:
Sorry this is going to turn into a bunch of rambling sentances.

I heavly have to disagree. Specialy since I did not only emulators but also a few homebrew games. I loved both equaly but both are totaly different strengths. If no emulators were allowed to be made you still would not find an extensive amout of original homebrew. PSP scene as a whole suffers from loosers more then anything else. Too many poorly made lua apps and 12 year old kids who think they have balls telling off coders that they suck and should kill them selfs.

The people who do emulators would not turn around and start writing games since most are technical people who prefer difficult task. If anything emulators more killed off demo coders (think pc/amiga people) who are more inclind to flex a systems power vs writing a game.

I'm personaly an all around coder so I look to push a creative side and a technical side.

Hell lets take this a step further. Look at the n64 scene, very few emulators and homebrew games. Yet tons of demo/scene coders.

 

exactly

http://www.pouet.net/prodlist.php?platf[]=Nintendo+64&order=&x=32&y=6&page=1&order=

 

I personally don't think the emulator collections for consoles are worthwhile. It's a waste considering that with some extra effort they could have done a remake of the game, Super Mario Collection-style. I much rather shell out for that.

Although the ArcadeVGA product can indeed output native arcade resolution for many games, it is also locked at a 60Hz refresh rate which is incorrect for many games. Many output at 53Hz, 54Hz, 55Hz, etc. Since many arcade games are programmed to synchronize to the vertical refresh rate running at an incorrect rate causes music tempo and sound pitch to be incorrect. Another example of how emulation distorts the way the original played.