PS3 encrypt broken, permanently jailbroken!

Not true

lets say 500k pirate a game

say 200k were going to buy it but decided against it.

The other 300k were never going to buy it, only got it because it was free.

Those 300k are NOT lost sales, as they were never going to be sales in the first place. THATS what people are saying. You can say "such and such amount of pirated versions" but you cannot know how many chose pirate over retail and how many chose pirate over nothing.

 

No, it didn't. The majority of those people, had they not been able to download a cracked version, would probably have waited for one, but nobody can say how many would've bought it instead. At the risk of repeating myself, this is the difference between an "open" platform like the PC, and the PS3 (at least prior to a few months ago) - anyone owning a PS3 would not have been waiting for a free copy to show up on the Pirate Bay, because the system was secure. When it this changes it has an obvious effect on sales.

It's mildly annoying to see references to music piracy in this thread, since it's such a different situation. An album that costs £10 new now will likely cost a similar amount at retail in ten years' time. This is massively different for videogames - a new game will cost £45 now, and maybe £10 in a year's time. If you can find a game for sale which is a decade old it, buying it probably won't benefit the original developers at all. This is why the games industry is so paranoid about piracy.

 

@Alchy

How is the used games business in the uk?

I ask because of your references to retail pricing.
In the states used and consignment is getting to be a bigger and bigger piece of the retail picture.

What games do sell for a good price a year later are the titles with strong online.
I suspect this is a reason why so many developers are doing multiplayer - they can use online drm more and sell more copies than a single player game you can dowload, bypass drm once and play forever.

But what struck me as interesting was the cd vs games references.

If I want a cd I am NOT paying retail for it if it is more than a few months old. If I really really want a hard copy I'm hitting up a used record shop or amazon or eBay and paying $5 for a cd that cost $17.99 or $14.99 at retail when released.

He'll even amazon has NEW titles at 1/3 the price of the original.

Games are generally the same. Look at bioshock and gta4 vs MW2...

6 months after release bioshock went from $59.99 to $24.99 at the largest used retailer, Gamestop.

Gta4 did slightly better at around $29.99 and modern warfare2 was.... $39.99...

So it's a lot based on multiplayer and replayability.
In that same example the xbox version of gra4 dropped SLOWER than the ps3 version.
Coincidental that until the "liberty city stories" edition you could only play the expansions on an xbox with an ORIGINAL copy of gta4?

So the retail and "50% weren't gonna buy it" argument to me loses more weight.

I am a gamer. I own 2/3 consoles (my HDTV is allergic to the crappy looking wii) and I wait for ALOT of games to slide in price as I don't have time for multiplayer and love story driven games.

Now, if I am a pirated presented with the prospect of inserting a sandisk USB key Into my ps3, getting some dual layer DVDs and not even waiting for the games to lower in price, does this hurt retail?

Absolutely it does. Ironically it doesn't impact the sale of ps3 software though, because used games are not counted in sales data.

But something I thought of when I read your post.

 

There are a ton of factors that affect the video game business. Sony will lose business from those that wanted to play PS3 games but had to buy them because they had no viable option to pirate them. Sony may also lose business when consumers that don't care either way are informed of easy ways to get "free games". This is indeed bad for Sony and bad for business. While I do like the idea of being able to run homebrew software on hardware you bought, realistically if you want that, get a PC. I've used Xbox (original) and PS3 homebrew. Also DreamCast, PS2, and GameCube. While they are neat, you are settling for less. It's a novelty really. I'd rather systems be more secure like Xbox 360 seems to be, to hopefully prevent or atleast cut down on any online cheating. I don't nee my Xbox 360 to run emulators or whatever else. I know other people like it and that's fine. But I just see it as pointless. I was somewhat interested in the PS3 homebrew scene at first but lost interest after thinking about it.

 

From what I have read, it is essentially impossible for sony to stop this on existing PS3s that are out there right now due to the fact that they can't replace METLDR on existing PS3s.

If Sony issues a new firmware with a new appldr key (one thats not so weak) and starts encrypting/signing new games with the new appldr key (and then either whitelists every previously released PS3 title or issues patches for them so they are signed with the new key) then you can take the new firmware released by Sony and use the METLDR key to decrypt lv0ldr, lv1ldr, appldr etc). From there you can get whatever you need to produce a custom firmware that supports whatever new stuff Sony added whilst still accepting stuff protected with the old vulnerable keys (the ones we have the private half of).

As for PSN, since we can now change any piece of code running on the system except for a few low-level bits that Sony cant change either, if Sony adds stuff to PSN to check for modified firmwares, you can find the code that does the "is this hacked" check and modify it to give PSN exactly the answer it needs to accept the firmware and game as legitimate.

 

so you mean that someone that haven't bought a ps3 in all these years and will buy it now to JB it will buy ANY original games?

don't make me laush!

 

In your specific situation no, but don't forget many people that are now creating the second hand market by buying the originals and selling them again are most likely also going to JB.

PS: dual layer DVDs? PS3 is not 360.
PS3 JB can play from HDD, no need to burn anything.

 

I would love to make you laugh, but not laush !
Second of all, if you ask one of our resident pirates on the board (GoH), then you will know. That he has bought an arse load of games next to his homely pirated ones, and I used to be a pirate, and what do I do now ? well I go out and buy my games (PS2 games too). So if any one should laugh, then it is me . So please do not make me laugh. Also I buy a lot of music too. So if any one should not make me laugh, then it is you.
But why do I like my consoles chipped ? well if there is a prototype some where for the PS2, I would love to try the prototype game, so go figure.

 

I buy retail games because it's easier and quicker. Not to mention if I did want to download a game I'd have to put up with poor download speeds, bandwith caps, burning copying installing etc.

 

Hrm... But just because you buy games doesn't negate the theft of others. You can still do lots of economic damage without being a 100% thief.

 

The ONLY time you "lose" sales due to piracy was if someone felt so strongly as to play a game that they'd pay for it rather than: rent it, steal it (physical theft), borrow it, etc. This is an incredibly unlikely situation.

Now POTENTIAL sales lost sure since every pirated copy is a POTENTIAL sale lost. However it is not a definitive lost sale as if someone was outside GameStop selling bootleg copies of the game for 50% off (which is a definitive lost sale to bootlegging for sure but be honest most people who pirate games don't go this route. Except for maybe China and South America).

Sony will gain sales of PS3 consoles for the computer science crowd (and the US Navy who I personally know has a Super Computer stack consisting entirely of PS3s that, until now, were not replaceable due to the removal of OtherOS. Wanna bet they can buy a lot of the things?) and likely not gain any sales of game discs which hurts developers far more than it does Sony. I know Microsoft was banking on people buying about 5 games per 360 sold in order to turn a profit. I would imagine part of the high price tag on the PS3 was to make sure they turned a profit with or without selling a single game which makes better business sense if you add in the inevitable event of piracy being enabled. This will not "cost" them anything since they don't lose money (as in it comes out of their pocket) each time a game is pirated. If anything they have a lot to gain by selling BD-Rs and BD-R burners. Might as well make up what they can since there is absolutely, positively no way to 100% kill the bootleg market.

 

I agree to all that, but i also would add the feeling that you actually own it. It's like buying a CD over a digital file. Plus it surely helps the used game market.

 

Hmmm , you are saying I did do damage. Well hey that is probably true. But as I said, I used to be a pirate, now I am not. But let us not talk semantics and damage in the physical realm, cause it is in some ways a philosophical thing really, cause what it boils down to, is socialism versus capitalism. Now it is just (again) called piracy versus the "navy". Cause real pirates were social too. But I will leave it at that.

 

Yeah that too. There's also the own it play it factor. When I had a chipped PS1 I would order games via my mum who knew someone at work who could burn them for me, I didn't have access to the internet and I was too young to afford real games. They were £5 each and I'd buy maybe one a month and I'd play each game to death.

However in this day and age I have access to a wealth of games for all sorts of systems, I recently discovered the feature of being able to run PS2 games from a USB HD, I'll not lie, I've downloaded a few ISO's. Have I played them..have I hell. It's just not the same, I don't appreciate their value because I didn't pay for them and I can get so many games I don't stick with one I just keep jumping to the next.

 

It's mostly the feeling of missing the package and manual... i somehow feel that sony encouraged ps2 piracy by not giving ps2 backwards compatibility with the ps3.

 

Here we go again.

Obviously, illegal digital downloads don't literally take money out of Sony's pockets. The point, the only one that matters in this discussion and the one which you refuse to accept, is that many people who would've paid for PS3 games will now download them instead. Those are lost sales in any man's books, and in this way the jailbreak and the key releases are costing Sony money right now, regardless of what loopy opinion you have about the percentage of jailbreakers who are honest customers.

If potential money doesn't "cost" you anything then you'll let me dictate what happens to your paycheck for the next six months. (That's not supposed to be a metaphor for the wider debate, by the way, just an illustration that losing money you don't have yet is just as possible for you as it is for a corporation.)

Except for, well, a secure platform, like the one they had for the last four years. That worked to 100% kill the bootleg market for PS3 for that duration. Admittedly that's over and they won't ever put the cat back in the bag, but they'll certainly fucking try - the idea that they'd just give up and start selling BD-Rs to assist in piracy of their own products, you're genuinely out of your mind mate.

 

They can't lose the money if they never had it.

Losing "Potential Sales" and "Possible profits/money" are different matters all together

 

HUGE DISCLAIMER

I haven't pirated a game since around 2002... 8 years.
Supporting developers or waiting for used titles is how I game now as a thirty year old adult who doesn't need the headache of massive lawsuits (ala "the hurt locker") or losing my Internet connection getting caught.

Officially "I love netflix"... Okay?

---

Without insulting your Intelligence, I assume you are familiar with ripping?

Even then I myself have no clue if that level of compression is even feasable on deco d thought.

Btw... Anyone remember the dreamcast days? I recall some games being like, w
200mb... Not bad considering the 1024mb a GB-ROM could hold.

I imagine games like uncharted and gt5 are impossible, but a game like say.... Streetfighter 4 developed on an xbox and ported to a ps3 may tidilly fit on a dl-dvdr.

 

Without insulting your intelligence, you understood me wrong. I didn't say anything about space issues, just that it would be a waste to burn stuff that can be played directly from internal/external hdd, etc.

Also no need to defend yourself with disclaimers and what not, this topic can be freely discussed without the secret police kicking down your door.

 

I'm new here and wasn't sure :-/