The unmoderated NEO GEO thread

Any unbiased comment on this pic:



Great asset to the community right?

Yes, but you never staged a VHS playing the game on CES and told everybody it was the real deal. If you do that and get caught, it would sure raise major eyebrows as for ownership of the item.

 

Well they are probably demonstrating that they have the right to produce corrected inserts. I don't agree with destroying the originals, but that is their perogative and it did get them extra attention.

When you're right you're right - I stage nothing. I do not really lie either or make any deliberate attempt to conceal the truth or alter it to suit my needs. Whilst I am honest, I'm not always right and I can be mistaken. The problem is, I've not been proven wrong and people keep seeming to avoid doing so, perhaps because it cannot be done. Dion invited TonK to see some shitty pinball game I really couldn't give a fuck about. They should accept the offer and go see it.

Oh and one more pic for lulz. Note it is Dion's perogative to reject your requests for proof as it is mine to release it without being asked. Again the titles have been concealed to protect the bananabreak members identities and to not spoil the surprise of up and coming releases.

 

I understand the issue of holding unreleased protos as I have dozens and dozens of them for various systems, but I haven't ever been chastised or questioned for that matter for never showing "proof" in that matter...

I was yelled at for "not" dumping them for free by numerous people over the years, and it does get quite annoying. The problem is there are many issues to this story and a lot of times people read between the lines and don't fully understand everything going on...

Back in the days a LONG time ago, when there were Yahoo newsgroups Dion was talking a lot about Neo stuff and the problem was back then no one knew about conversions, therefore the persona was "born" and these were deemed as "official."

Well "official" to NGF and "official" to SNK are different and with them possibly getting rights to license inserts with corrected colors, etc is fine as what they did was provide a service as if people are updating their cars, etc. "Customization" to their collection if you will.

Now there is nothing wrong to customizing stuff nor is their anything wrong with them selling conversions that are NGF "official" but the issue was back then people assumed that the new items they were selling were "crazy rare" and SNK official releases when the key terminology was SNK officially licensed by NGF to create the corrected inserts and conversions.

Think of it this way, why do most conservatives believe Bill O'Reilly's program on FOX NEWS to be actual "news?" It is because FOX NEWS is the name of the channel and is on the bottom right of the station, but it's actually entertainment. A lot of people don't realize that and the "hype" and "controversy" is what keeps this going and going.

The more anything gets brought up about them, the more "hype" becomes "legendary", the people that do this are the ones that make posts about it.

Whether or not they have/had these games doesn't make a difference honestly. If they are lying about it, great, it's the greatest troll in the history of the world since 12 years have gone by and people care about it still.

I mean I have read this stuff countless times and I see people say they have been ripped off by them, and a lot of that has to do with the misdirection of wording about officially licensed by SNK to NGF to officially RELEASED by SNK.

There is no NGF release that SNK RELEASED, only NGF releases that SNK gave theirs hats off to.

Because of this KOF 2000 is considered more of a homebrew instead of an official SNK release because you had to get it online from NGF only as opposed to SNK having anything to do with it, though if the art files originally made by SNK were the art NGF requested to be on there, that is their prerogative but because of how passionate Neo collectors are, this isn't going to ever be considered part of an official library because of the issues involving the release in general.

As far as "stamping" and "tagging" games go, GameStop has been stickering games for years, so had Game Dude, merely a warranty to make sure the game was originally through their hands, but yes, I agree it messes with collector value overall, unfortunately you choose that if you bought from NGF.

Neo-Geo.com has many passionate individuals over there for the Neo. Tonk does a hell of a job for the community. Unfortunately because everyone jumps on the I HATE NGF bandwagon a lot of people there look childish from their photoshopping and obsession over Dion and Chris pictures.

Again, I'm not insulting anyone or any site, I like Neo-geo.com, I love the Neo Geo. I am a business person and collector, but I don't go around taking pictures and going off on the guys constantly, lol...I think all Tonk was trying to do was prove that they never had their hands on Last Odyssey.

What came out of that was something everyone forgot. Dion said he didn't have the game anymore and that was why it couldn't be checked, etc, but when the ROM was a hoax, no he says he does have it and there will be a release? That is more of a questionable thing than anything else because it's smoke and mirrors, either you are going to release it or not for sale, lol...I mean, if NGF sold stuff normally on their still, people would buy themm but they don't sell stuff and this Last Odyssey thing is proving to either be A, another wacky marketing thing or B, a lie that will continue to go on for awhile.

I don't know either way, all I know is I don't see the difference in value from a NGF conversion to one that cgame used to make...cgame's had pretty nice quality...

I definitely think the twisted wording of "official SNK released game0" vs "official NGF licensed by SNK" really made NGF's credibility go down the tube...

I just want to see more released myself but the war between if NGF has xxx games will never be answered unless they release the games for sale as limited run or just show actual pics of games running because of the credibility issues.

 

Alas someone else who is sensible enters the foray. A bit too much there to multiquote.

I understand your frustration and as someone who got annoyed from only a fraction of the mail you probably get I can only imagine your position.

It is odd that Dion would say he sold it then can produce proof of it all of a sudden at first glance, but as with anything there can always be ways around that.

For example I bought GD-R from a lot of places, including some off you too then when I was broke I sold them on. Now with the bananabreak stuff, some have found their way back to me. I did sell them, I no longer own them, but they are back in my hands.

Or as people often claim Dion is/was a scammer he could have taken the money and not shipped it, or of course that he never had it to sell or ship.

I personally would think that if Dion had it to sell, he would only sell it to someone he was on good terms with and such person may be willing to temporarily loan it to him.

If the offer to experience and prove or disprove the title is declined, which it was, there isn't much anyone can do except stop harassing him really - not that they should have done to begin with.

I do agree with you on the twisted wording of "official SNK released game0" vs "official NGF licensed by SNK" point though, even if it seems I failed to articulate it correctly.

Regards,

 

Pretty much agree with you there, DreamTR.

If a shop does something to damage a game from a collector's point of view - be it using some nasty stickers that tear boxes or leave a residue, putting stickers under the plastic sleeve on DVD-style cases directly on the insert or marking cartridges to show it's been through them - you don't usually bitch at them. Maybe you might express your displeasure, but you know it's not going to get you anywhere. If that's their policy, don't buy from them - simple.

Yes, as I see it, the outcome of the trial is that SNK Playmore licensed NGF to sell Neo Geo games with corrected English inserts. That makes it an official licensed product.... just like Tec Toy games, Samsung Saturn games etc. Initially, they were claiming that the reproduction artwork was counterfeit, sure. However, it would appear that the settlement altered this - otherwise, why would SNK have the press release on their site stating that the corrected insert games were OK for NGF to sell?

It is a shame that these people choose to chew on the same stuff over and over.

I've basically stated my opinion on it, I don't think there's much more to say. I'm not saying Dion hasn't done anything wrong, I'm just saying that he did have permission from SNK. I don't condone ripping people off, abuse, or such behaviour.

Anyway, I think there are other interesting issues relating to the case. As I've said before, there were others taken to court around the same time. Tonk asked me to feel free to discuss anything else with him, so I asked him what happened to those other companies. I think that's a reasonable and interesting question - and I don't see why the NG community wouldn't have followed those cases with equal interest if they're so bothered by fraudulent sellers. Unfortunately, he chose to ignore my post, instead looking at my subsequent post about Adol and calling me a "real asshole" and a "nut job". Shame.

Tonk - I appreciate this is an unmoderated thread, and I take your comments on the chin as a result. However, I stated that I respect you as a knowledgable collector in the Neo Geo community. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think I've resorted to using petty insults against you personally, have I? I pointed out your attitude problem before, sure, I might have said that I felt such behaviour was immature or unacceptable, but I don't believe I called you names with it. Is it really necessary to resort to such behaviour? I'm trying to have an intelligent discussion with you and the rest of the community, and I'm afraid it just makes you look rather childish.

Anyway, why won't you answer my question on the other companies? Do you have any information on them? I'd really like to know what they did wrong, and what happened to them as a consequence.

 

it was not a policy, some people got freaked items, others not. ChrisR collection isn´t freaked for example. Those who got felt cheated. Especially after getting personal assurance from Dion that the items wouldn´t be freaked.

These where never sold as NGF licensed products. They where sold as ultra rare carts straight from SNK of Japan. Different from what tectoy or Samsung did.


For Retro and LeGIt:

Seriously, I don´t know what´s the point of you guys spinning the truth like that. Both have extreme limited knowledge on the subject that goes back for more than a decade and think you are on some enlightenment trip, where everyone is blind but you. It´s obvious that both are in no position to issue conclusions.

 

If they were advertised as Japanese games, or anything other than the NGF altered games, that's a separate issue... as I've said before.

In which case, as I've said before, deal with it at the time. Try with Chris and Dion. If that doesn't work, take legal action.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/general/gen06.shtm

Basically, always pay with a credit card for protection. Lots of helpful info there, e.g.:

This is really basic stuff. If you have an issue, complain. If that doesn't get you anywhere, seek further assistance elsewhere.

Or do nothing, then bitch about it on the Internet. Because that's going to get you somewhere.

 

This is not a separate issue, this is the issue. Nothing that you posted in your previous reply happened. There was no policy nor NGF official distributor. They freaked shit when they could get away with it and everything was straight from SNK of Japan.

Get it nowray:

 

Lol, then explain why Playmore would put a statement on the SNK website AFTER the court case, telling the World that "These games were sold by Neogeo Freaks/NGF USA with the corrected English AES inserts with the permission of SNK Corporation Japan"?

And again, same response. IF they were selling games without permission, any buyer should have done exactly as I suggested in my previous post.

And you don't get why we're mentioning it? Simple.

WE'RE TIRED OF YOU NEO GEO FANBOYS HAVING A VENDETTA AGAINST DION ON OUR FORUM! You've made your point that you hate him, you think he's an evil scumbag and ripped people off. Fine. We get it. Now DROP IT.

Did you join this forum to have sensible discussions on Neo Geo and other video games? Or did you merely join to troll about this tired subject? If it's the former, welcome and I look forward to civil discussion with you. If it's the latter, you've done it. Why not just fuck off now?

 

again, they had permission to correct inserts but that´s not how the carts where sold. They where sold as SNK of Japan itself printed and released it.

Obviously what is in the court is what can be proven with hard facts. So this lie escaped. Another issue is when they got the license to correct inserts. SNK would never be able to prove if they did things prior to the permission.

and you are the one trolling here. Dude, you know nothing. All you read was some court documents. Go spaz out elsewhere.

 

Yeah, I appreciate that. And, as I said before, there's a way to go about dealing with that. Did nobody take proper steps?

As I have also previously mentioned, we've all dealt with scumbags who ripped us off. We've all had issues that we couldn't resolve and lost a lot of money. And we've all moved on.

It takes a big person to say fuck it, it's not worth it. I'm done, I'm moving on and not letting this consume my life. I'm sorry that there are a handful of members over at NG who are unable to do this. It just makes you look like a bunch of children spitting your dummies.

Legit lost $700 recently - he bought a prototype disc that was all scratched up. The seller claimed it was in transit, so he sent it back for a refund. Allegedly, UPS seized the disc... probably due to him declaring it as "copied CD" (when it was in fact a GD-R). Yup, idiot. And he moved house and disappeared. Legit never saw his money... but he's put it in the past now.

I mean... similarly, many of us have had PayPal disputes turn out against us. We don't go around the entire Internet saying - OMG, don't use PayPal! They're robbing scammers!

 

look who wrote more in this thread, sure it wasn´t me. You are the one wasting a hell of time here, while having nothing to do with it.

 

lol metallizer. Spoken like a true... well... you know those people who when you argue with them and they say do you have kids and if you don't, it somehow makes you automatically wrong on every single point, even the ones that don't involve kids? It's the same kind of shit you lot are doing now.

Now if we're misinformed, we're open to new information and we're happy to change our minds to believe that Dion/NGF is a piece of shit through and through if it is proven to be the case - but it obviously isn't going to happen because despite his faults he comes across as a half decent human being which is more than can be said for the likes of the lynch mob stalking, harassing and intimidating him.

It seems to me the issue has only got out of hand because of TonK's personal war, making mountains out of molehills to rally the troops whilst not keeping them all informed of all the facts, just enough truth so that a lie is palatable.

Now you lot can bring all of the testimonies, half truths, misunderstandings and fiction together in the NGF bible, but seriously, why is it so hard for you to put all of the facts in one place and put the court documents there too? I'll tell you why - because if you do somewhere along the line a lot of the bullshit against Dion/NGF will break down.

Now I'm not saying there is no smoke without fire and some of the shit is bound to stick and Dion will deserve some discredit for it, but really the case against Dion/NGF has been blown out of all proportion by people who were butthurt and never learned to drop it, grow up and move on which was then perpetuated by people without a fucking clue. Then they have the cheek to call other people clueless, when they themselves lost all sight of the truth a long, long time ago.

Take the case of this picture weaponised against Dion, demonising him forever.

http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/showt...he-NGF-Bible&p=1719721&viewfull=1#post1719721

I'm an asshole and I don't mean to be, but given the choice between being happy or right I'd rather be right and I usually am so... If you looked into this issue with an open mind as I have you would see the truth, but you close your eyes.

 

Where did I say Dion assaulted people?

You are wrong, just search for it.

You better address at me with my own statements. I for sure being doing so with you.

In the second page, you can check what mooky has to say. He´s the one that got grabbed.

]

despite the fact that posting a picture of a minor without permission is against the law. It was not an assault and mooky choose not to press charges.

 

I meant the royal you, as in the N-G community - hence why I said 'lot' frequently. Your pedantic reasoning, misunderstanding or otherwise opinion doesn't make me wrong on the facts as I had intended them, though yeah perhaps I could have been a little better with my presentation so I am sorry for any confusion.

You would be foolish to think I wasn't aware of that either.

Just because Dion acted like a dick doesn't mean he had bad intentions, the same could be said for some of your NG trolls telling me to go fuck my mother etc. In fact the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The notion of pressing charges only came up because someone else was trying to create a problem that didn't exist. Your quote disproves nothing I have said.

If there is no ill will by Dion, Kiselgof didn't feel any bad intentions and mookystains was shocked but OK with it, ask yourself why the need to propogate lies or spin around the picture?

Look for the people who will benefit from doing so...

All I'm saying is don't believe all the shit that is being shovelled to you and it takes two to tango.

 

just to put a stone in this, here is the email they talk about in the thread:

real civil and polite.

 

You would also be foolish to think I wasn't aware of that either.

Dion appears histrionic/narcissistic and given the context, his side of the story was obviously exaggerated - especially if the others didn't mention anything hostile at the time. Your quote disproves nothing I have said.

If you re-read what I've said and give it time to sink in, maybe even sleep on it you'll find that I stated even when the bullshit is over and done with Dion will still have done things that will discredit him, just nowhere near to the extent some people have portrayed. The PayPal chargeback on Kiselgof is one, the occasionally poor customer service is another. Note this brief list is not comprehensive, merely an example.

 

say we put aside all the discredits: Merchandise defacing, poor costumer service, scamming, etc...

Any positive light? Or just the dismal possibility he might have a proto.

 

The thing is with customer service is not many people comment that they are happy, usually only a minority post they are unhappy. Have you done any good forum trades and had people take forever to post good feedback, if at all and seen the rush to post the bad?

Sure, several people are posting problems with Dion and they are well within their right to do so, but given as he sold several thousand copies of games how many people are not complaining?

It just comes back to the same handful of people who were butthurt and not learned to drop it, grow up and move on but at least a couple of them are not being a dick about it. Kiselgof was wronged, but he is cool and cool about it and people could learn a lot from his example. It is no good just parading Kiselgof around as the voice of reason, they need to follow suit.

To be honest I'm not sure on all of the positive light as I don't live and breathe Neo Geo but he did get it out there to a lot of people and he didn't hide behind some limited company either. When you're a sole trader or 'fictitious business' if you get sued, your own personal property gets taken, not the companies - because in effect you are the company so his home was at risk. It takes real guts to put that burden on you and not a disposable legal entity, especially when you're in the public eye and he went out there and did that. People also seemed to enjoy visiting his booth in person too.

He also delivered a personalised service to his clients needs - not many businesses do that, however regrettably it included personalised insults or challenges too which is not very professional. The alternative being a professional attitude could have got him to write people a civilised letter politely telling them to fuck off as big companies often do and if he did, people may have grinned and beared it and he'd have got a lot less trouble. It all comes down to which form of fobbing off you prefer, though his personalised approach is definitely more abrasive and certainly fuels the flames and feels the trolls, which must be keeping someone happy if it is allowed to persist for over a decade FFS.

Note the good he may have done does not negate or absolve him of the bad and likewise the bad does not make him all bad.

Since he showed up I gave the Neo Geo platform another look. I can't afford to shop for AES but the CD system seems more affordable. I am a Dreamcast fan though, I used to own a Neo Geo Pocket Portable and I may be more tempted to pick another one up now because of the cross system compatability given that I have been reminded such function exists. If even his bad press brings people to the Neo Geo club, then there must be something good to it too.

As for the proto - the offer was made to visit and experience it. The offer was declined. If NG are not going to visit him and get proven wrong, there really isn't any point in talking shit about it either.

 

If I owned this site, legit would have been deleted a long time ago.

Now when Dion admits to something, legit is there to say "Oh, he was exaggerating"

I've been in the Neo Scene for over a decade - I know what the fuck is going on.

You have NO CLUE what went down in the past - you just come in and start clapping your hands like a fucking retard.

There is enough info out there to prove almost every claim I've made.

Yeah, I could have gone to Vegas to play the proto - you know why I didn't? Because Dion doesn't have it.

He even told me on the phone (Thursday) that he doesn't have it.

Neither of us care - but the fact that you keep peddling his "offer" around is funny to both of us.

Don't know what you're trying to prove - but I go way back with Dion and he knows I'll stand face to face with him. The rest is trolling, he will admit to that.

Your "devils advocate" approach will get you ZERO respect. And I don't know how the members here put up with a piece of shit mod like you, who bought his way onto the site.

That accident must have settled well?